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  1. #1
    NLO Administrator Patrick has disabled reputation

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    Default My 30 Days With A Macbook Pro

    I'll start at the beginning. Thirty days ago I bought a 15" Macbook Pro (Santa Rosa). I have been interested in learning the Mac OS for awhile, and the only way I could really do it would be forcing myself to use it on a daily basis. So I sold my 17" Dell Inspiron e1705 and went all Mac.

    I still use PC's on a daily basis at work and to run certain aspects of my life, such as recording my podcast, running my webserver, etc.

    The following is a real-life, honest listing of likes and dislikes comparing Windows Vista to Mac OS X.

    These are my negative experiences:
    • The green "maximize" button on windows doesn't really do ANYTHING predictable. It certainly doesn't maximize most apps. Just what the hell does it do? You have to click it to find out.
    • I don't like the transparency of applications with multiple child windows. If I'm in Photoshop in Windows, I have a parent window, with a background that all the child windows and open documents reside in. In OS X, everything is just floating and doesn't seem like it belongs. Every window feels like it's an orphan, and if you have apps and documents from other apps open behind Photoshop, it is dizzying sometimes. There are several apps like this and it's annoying.
    • This is a common one - why doesn't the app close when I close the last window or document open in that app? What's worse, is some apps do this, and some don't. No consistency. This should at the very least be a preference I can set! Odds are, if I close the last open Word document I have, I'm done with word. This would be solved by having the docs open in a parent window as stated above.
    • Crashes happen way more frequent than you're led to believe. I've definitely had more lockups and freezes on OS X that I've had on Windows since Windows 98. Just my experience.
    • Why doesn't the delete key delete things? If a file is highlighted and I hit delete, it should get deleted. That's common sense. But no, I have to push apple key + delete. Annoying. Also - it works like a backspace key, not a delete key. Please label things correctly, Apple.
    • When I click on a sound file, it will play in Quicktime. If I click it again, nothing happens. I expect it to replay, but it doesn't. I then have to go up to the QT window and click play if I want it to play again. Why not intuitively play it again if I click it again.
    • Let's say I'm on CNN.com and I see a paragraph in an article I want to print. Is there no way to do this in a Mac? On a PC, I highlight the paragraph, go to Print, and choose print selection. OS X doesn't give me this option. Another "we'll make it easier by removing options" feature, I'm sure.
    • This probably has to do with the entire Unix system underneath OS X, but this constant need to run disk utility and repair disk permissions is exhausting. I get, about once a week, this problem where certain letter don't render on my screen. A, Q, P, W, 7, etc. just don't show up. A space shows up where they should be, but not the letter. This is across ALL apps, whether written by me, or on a website, in an IM, email, etc. They just don't exist. I repair disk permissions and they come back. WTF?
    • Fonts suck. I do a lot of graphics work. I mistakingly thought I could just bring all my fonts over to Font Book. It lets you install duplicate fonts with no warning. It causes weird problems where certain buggy fonts will change your fonts on websites and email and system-wide, inexplicably, and you then have to track down the buggy fonts and remove them to get your system to behave.
    • Hey Apple - a lot of the world uses Windows. Make your shit work with it. Networking shared drives and printers are a nightmare. I plain couldn't get the printer to work, it would just print gibberish. I tried adding it through CUPS, updating and swapping drivers, etc. No dice. Why can't OS X remember I want certain shares mounted all the time and do it automatically if they're available? At least add them on bootup and on wake from sleeping. If there's a way to do this. PLEASE tell me. Adding certain shares as mounted drivers works fine in the Finder by going to Go > Connect to server..., but then if I try to make an automator script with THE SAME EXACT smb:// or cifs:// command, it doesn't mount it. It's the most frustrating thing in the world. Automator will mount some, but some refuse to mount unless I do it manually. Is there ANYTHING that will make Apple play nice with Windows. It's ridiculous.
    • Bonjour is a joke. It won't find anything. I went a bought a new network printer because OS X won't cooperate with my shared Windows printer. Bonjour is cumbersome, misleading, and just doesn't work. I had to add the printer as an IP printer to get it to work. Thisi s tough, since if Bonjour DOES list the printer, it doesn't give me it's IP. If Bonjour finds the printer and lets me add it, it says it's constantly busy and just won't work. Completely unacceptable and not helpful in the least. By the way, Vista found and had the printer working in seconds. Easy as could be.
    • Screen resolution on Mac notebooks is horrible. They just added 1920x1200 to their 17" line in this last revision. Dell's been doing it for years. It's about time. 1440x900 is unbearable coming from 1920x1200. They could do 1680x1050 on the 15". It wouldn't hurt.
    • I can't close the lid of my Macbook without it going to sleep. No option. Yes, there's a hack for this, but it states that the heat could damage the Macbook or my screen. Solid.
    • The microphone is mounted IN THE SPEAKER ENCLOSURE. On top of that, it's centimeters from the FANS in the system. I'm no engineering genius, but this is retarded. Why isn't it up by the camera? The background noise is significant and intolerable sometimes. This is a horrible design flaw in my opinion. The auto-muting that the mic does when no one is talking is annoying as well.
    • There is no comprehensive mail program for the Mac (that I've found yet). I went from Mail, to Thunderbird, now to Entourage. Entourage would be good if it didn't crash every 5 minutes. I attribute this to the fact that it's a PowerPC app and it's running under Rosetta. I can't wait for Office 2008. Entourage is close to Outlook, and Outlook is - like it or not - the Cadillac of mail programs. Mail and Thunderbird have horrible layouts, lack features, and are generally annoying. Mail just lacks the basic features I need. Thunderbird has annoyances like the whole way it wants you to setup profiles, doesn't attach SMTP servers to mail accounts, and more. None of them (except Entourage) utilize the widescreen to maximize screen real estate to view mail efficiently. The three-column format of Entourage (and Outlook 2003-2007 on the PC) really has nailed this. There are hacks that will make Mail an Thunderbird force display a widescreen layout - kind of - but they don't do it well. The reply and forward headers of Mail and Thunderbird are annoying to anyone who uses "real" mail clients. "On June 23 Patrick wrote:" is not sufficent for a reply header. A little professionalism, please. To, From, Subject, Date, CC, etc. That's what people need.
    • Audio editing programs leave something to be desired. I miss Audition on the PC. Amadeus Pro lacked basic features for selecting a bitrate when encoding and MP3 - I had to work with the developer to get him to put it in. Adobe Soundbooth is brand new and looks promising, but it's still dumbed down like so much in OS X. Some of us like to do things with things - can we please have some control? Garageband is a joke. I'd be happy to take recommendations on apps for multi-track waveform audio editing - something powerful.
    • Video editing is really frustrating. iMovie HD is for idiots. Your options for titling and effects are very limited. Move up to Final Cut Pro and you've got overkill. A buddy of mine that used to work at the Apple Store says there is nothing else for editing video. Is there anything equivalent to Avid's Pinnacle on PC for the Mac? That is what I need. Let me pick a format I want my movie in iMovie. The world doesn't revolve around Quicktime. As a matter of fact, my Mac froze playing a QT movie trailer on apple.com. QT movies play jittery and just aren't smooth on a PC - they screw up all the time. When they work, they're pretty, but they don't always work. I don't like how if I add a title to a movie in iMovie I can't choose the duration. It doesn't get it's own track. It renders it right to my movie. Super annoying. I can't figure out how to make a title overlay an entire clip. I can only get 5 or so seconds at a time. Neat.
    • Java crashes Firefox and Camino if it gets to intense. IRC chats, Paypal Multi-Order shipping, etc. None of it works consistently.
    • Flash can cause my processor to go nuts. Not only this but there is no real-time flash encoder for Mac like there is for PC's. What the hell?
    • Some widgets don't work at all. My Woot! widget doesn't and never has worked.
    • iSync needs to be compatible with more phones. It doesn't work with my old Samsung or my new Blackberry. What the hell, Apple?
    • System updates are ok because they are centralized, but I'd like an option to not have to restart immediately. The new Vista update system kicks OS X's ass if you ask me.
    • My Microsoft Laser Mouse 8000 was a pain to setup, and had to be rigged. So all the awesome Bluetooth wzards and help on the Mac were useless. Also, the mouse disconnects every 5-10 minutes for a few seconds. It's very annoying. I refuse to buy a Mighty Mouse from Apple. This is a new, top-of-the-line bluetooth mouse. It should just work.
    Last edited by Patrick; July 12, 2007 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #2
    NLO Administrator Patrick has disabled reputation

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    Oh - one more thing. Stupid iPhoto.

    iPhoto - holy shit is this a joke. I was so looking forward to it. I have my photos in my pictures directory. I import them into iPhoto and it just lumps them all together. Uhhh...ok? How about organizing them by the folder they were in - how I had them already? Nope. iPhoto thinks people want their photos organized by THE FUCKING YEAR THEY WERE TAKEN. Are you kidding me? What a joke. So it lumps all my photos, on various things, from various places, together by year. What a stupid inefficient system. A friend told me to make folders, smart folders, etc. Then you have to re-import and it takes forever and it still organized things by year. It's unintuitive and dumb. God I miss Picasa.

    That being said, there are some things I like on the Mac:
    • iTunes works so much better on a Mac. The scrolling isn't smooth under Windows Vista yet. Still some UI problems, but I'm sure Apple with fix them. iTunes just belongs and feels good on a Mac.
    • Expose is awesome. I find myself trying to use it on Windows now. It's just a good system.
    • I've never enjoyed using a touch/track pad on a laptop. The Macbook Pro's is easy to use, intuitive, and I don't mind it at all. For one, it's super wide, which makes using it easier, especially on a widescreen notebook computer. The two-finger right clicking and the ability to scroll with such ease with two fingers is just awesome. It's the only trackpad I've ever been about to tolerate. I don't even mind using it.
    • The built-in iSight camera is great. The quality is top notch for a webcam, and the design and unobtrusiveness is a big plus.
    • The quality of freeware seems to be better on OS X. However, the number of useless, stupid applications is higher. Someone actually made and SELLS an application that shows the number of new podcasts you have in iTunes on your status bar. Retarded.
    • I like the magsafe power adapter. I don't have any problems with it popping out during use, and it's saved my Macbook from falls already. The entire power cord (with it's short or long extension system) is designed well.
    • The LED backlit screen is super bright, responsive, and blows my old Dell away. It's the brightest screen I've ever seen.
    • The battery life is way better compared to my old Dell system, but in fairness the Dell was bigger and older.

    I think I'm going to sell the MBP at this point. There is definitely not some overwhelming light I've seen or anything. There are a lot of little stupid things that should work better on the Mac. Windows Vista is sharp and probably has an edge as an OS right now. Leopard looks good, but honestly I feel like Windows is more comprehensive.

    My main complaints are with the OS. Under bootcamp Vista rocks. Under Parallels, Vista won't function consistently. Maybe I'm just too Windows ingrained. I don't see how any power user could switch at this time. I just can't get things done under a Mac.

    I'm going to keep using it - because it's all I have right now. I hope it will grow on me and I'll keep finding apps that make it more comfortable to use.

    I just don't want to hear how everything just works on a Mac, and how it's so easy and intuitive. It isn't. It takes a lot to get used to.

    Here's my selling thread: http://www.nobodylikesonions.com/for...ead.php?t=6160
    Last edited by Patrick; July 12, 2007 at 11:30 AM.

  3. #3
    NLO Forums Member Robster will become famous soon enough

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    I had always thought about getting a mac book, but now I'm not so sure...


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    NLO Forums Frequenter driedsoap will become famous soon enough

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    I'm not a big fan of Apple computers for a main pc, mainly because they've always seemed geared towards the users that are computer illiterate.

    I'd have paid for an iMac just to have some fun with the applications, and get the hang of them but when it comes down to it the OS Macs don't give me the illusion of having a lot of control.

    I bought a refurbished pc with Windows Vista preloaded and miraculously I've never had problems. 2 gigs of memory and a speedy processor for under 600 measly Canadian dollars is remarkable considering I'd have paid twice that for an Apple machine not nearly as powerful (or compatible when it comes to all my software).

    By no means do I hate Apple products, I just don't feel the need to make the switch.

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    NLO Forums Frequenter Euclid will become famous soon enough Euclid will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by soc
    This is a common one - why doesn't the app close when I close the last window or document open in that app? What's worse, is some apps do this, and some don't. No consistency. This should at the very least be a preference I can set! Odds are, if I close the last open Word document I have, I'm done with word. This would be solved by having the docs open in a parent window as stated above.
    For the same reason you put the computer to sleep instead of turning it off, the point is so that you don't have to wait for a full startup the next time you do want to run Word. It doesn't really slow the machine down because of the way resources are managed. That said, I too prefer to quit Word when I'm not going to be using it for a while; I guess it's just a habit. I cmd+Q that bitch when I'm done.

    Good lists, though. It does take a lot of getting used to, but it really grows on you after a while. In that show where you ranted for so long about the problems you were having, it sounded like you expected to be able to seamlessly run the entire production right out of the box. Even the real koolaid drinkers would say that that is a tad unreasonable. The learning curve isn't that bad compared to the other way around (going from Mac to Windows) or worse yet Linux.

    One thing I really like about OS X is how easy it is to do internet connection sharing. For some reason I have never gotten this to work right with XP, but in OS X you just open up the preferences and say take the connection from ethernet and share it over wireless (or whatever).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
    For the same reason you put the computer to sleep instead of turning it off, the point is so that you don't have to wait for a full startup the next time you do want to run Word. It doesn't really slow the machine down because of the way resources are managed. That said, I too prefer to quit Word when I'm not going to be using it for a while; I guess it's just a habit. I cmd+Q that bitch when I'm done.

    Good lists, though. It does take a lot of getting used to, but it really grows on you after a while. In that show where you ranted for so long about the problems you were having, it sounded like you expected to be able to seamlessly run the entire production right out of the box. Even the real koolaid drinkers would say that that is a tad unreasonable. The learning curve isn't that bad compared to the other way around (going from Mac to Windows) or worse yet Linux.

    One thing I really like about OS X is how easy it is to do internet connection sharing. For some reason I have never gotten this to work right with XP, but in OS X you just open up the preferences and say take the connection from ethernet and share it over wireless (or whatever).
    Yeah one time for the hell of it I decided to share my EVDO connection on my MacBook Pro and connected at EVDO speeds on my iPhone. Pretty cool
    What the hell do I put in here?

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    NLO Forums Member That One Guy is on a distinguished road

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    Ive had my macbook (the black one) for about two and a half weeks. I have a lot of the same complaints patrick had, coming from windows also. However, judging by the way things have gone for me so far, I will not be using windows for personal home use ever again. It took me about 5 days to feel confident working my way around things proficiently.


    Quote Originally Posted by driedsoap View Post
    I'm not a big fan of Apple computers for a main pc, mainly because they've always seemed geared towards the users that are computer illiterate.
    Thats weird because I get the exact opposite impression. It seems people with apple computers are those who are high up in artistic fields like graphic design, video editing, music industry, etc. I have already had to enter in some lines of code or some shit in something called "terminal" (which i have deemed equivalent to the command prompt in windows) just to get some programs to work.
    Last edited by That One Guy; July 11, 2007 at 05:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooby View Post
    Yeah one time for the hell of it I decided to share my EVDO connection on my MacBook Pro and connected at EVDO speeds on my iPhone.
    Who do you think you are, Veronica Belmont?


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    NLO Forums Member Chompy is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
    It seems people with apple computers are those who are high up in artistic fields like graphic design, video editing, music industry, etc.
    That is not a contradiction. People in those fields are notoriously poor at using and understanding computers. I'm not saying that EVERY app. shouldn't be intuitive and easy to use, but just because someone makes a great work of art, music, etc using a computer, doesn't mean they are "good at computers", just that the app/OS they are using works for them.
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    NLO Forums Frequenter Euclid will become famous soon enough Euclid will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by driedsoap View Post
    I'm not a big fan of Apple computers for a main pc, mainly because they've always seemed geared towards the users that are computer illiterate.

    I'd have paid for an iMac just to have some fun with the applications, and get the hang of them but when it comes down to it the OS Macs don't give me the illusion of having a lot of control.
    A lot of people confuse complexity with power. You are right in that Windows merely gives you the illusion of having control. I think it largely comes down to a matter of ego; you learn how to jump through a bunch of hoops in order to accomplish basic computing tasks and this makes you feel "good at computers". You know all of the ins and outs of a complicated system and this makes you feel powerful and in-control.

    But if you can accomplish the same tasks with a simple, elegant tool, then this makes you computer illiterate? I don't understand this mindset.

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    NLO Forums Attendee Dutt is an unknown quantity at this point

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    Sounds like a pieceashit to me!


    Seriously though, the positives *hardly* compensate the negatives.

  12. #12
    NLO Administrator Patrick has disabled reputation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
    if you can accomplish the same tasks with a simple, elegant tool, then this makes you computer illiterate? I don't understand this mindset.
    But you can't. That's the point. I realize I'm a power user and I do things that are a lot more complicated than most people. But at this point, I can't think of one thing that is easier, simpler, or more elegant on a mac. Mail is more cumbersome, surfing the internet more problematic, and editing/compressing audio and video takes way longer and doesn't have the same quality as I'm used to producing.

    So your argument is kind of null.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    • There is no comprehensive mail program for the Mac (that I've found yet). I went from Mail, to Thunderbird, now to Entourage. Entourage would be good if it didn't crash every 5 minutes. I attribute this to the fact that it's a PowerPC app and it's running under Rosetta. I can't wait for Office 2008. Entourage is close to Outlook, and Outlook is - like it or not - the Cadillac of mail programs. Mail and Thunderbird have horrible layouts, lack features, and are generally annoying. Mail just lacks the basic features I need. Thunderbird has annoyances like the whole way it wants you to setup profiles, doesn't attach SMTP servers to mail accounts, and more. None of them (except Entourage) utilize the widescreen to maximize screen real estate to view mail efficiently. The three-column format of Entourage (and Outlook 2003-2007 on the PC) really has nailed this. There are hacks that will make Mail an Thunderbird force display a widescreen layout - kind of - but they don't do it well. The reply and forward headers of Mail and Thunderbird are annoying to anyone who uses "real" mail clients. "On June 23 Patrick wrote:" is not sufficent for a reply header. A little professionalism, please. To, From, Subject, Date, CC, etc. That's what people need.
    I've never understood why people use mail programs like this. I just use GMail, that can work the same (POP access etc.) as any of those clients.

    Is this an Email you sent to Apple, or is this like an open letter?

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    NLO Forums Frequenter Euclid will become famous soon enough Euclid will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    There is no comprehensive mail program for the Mac (that I've found yet). I went from Mail, to Thunderbird, now to Entourage. Entourage would be good if it didn't crash every 5 minutes. I attribute this to the fact that it's a PowerPC app and it's running under Rosetta. I can't wait for Office 2008. Entourage is close to Outlook, and Outlook is - like it or not - the Cadillac of mail programs. Mail and Thunderbird have horrible layouts, lack features, and are generally annoying. Mail just lacks the basic features I need. Thunderbird has annoyances like the whole way it wants you to setup profiles, doesn't attach SMTP servers to mail accounts, and more. None of them (except Entourage) utilize the widescreen to maximize screen real estate to view mail efficiently. The three-column format of Entourage (and Outlook 2003-2007 on the PC) really has nailed this. There are hacks that will make Mail an Thunderbird force display a widescreen layout - kind of - but they don't do it well. The reply and forward headers of Mail and Thunderbird are annoying to anyone who uses "real" mail clients. "On June 23 Patrick wrote:" is not sufficent for a reply header. A little professionalism, please. To, From, Subject, Date, CC, etc. That's what people need.
    I don't get what you mean by "headers" in Mail.app. When viewing email, you can show/hide full internet headers with shift+cmd+H. 99.9% of the time I don't need to see the routing information and other headers, so I leave them hidden. The simplified headers shows To, From, Subject, Date, CC, attachments, just "what people need".

    When you quote a message, the quote is introduced with the exact date/time and who wrote it. What is missing?

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    NLO Administrator Patrick has disabled reputation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
    I don't get what you mean by "headers" in Mail.app.
    Exactly.

    Hit reply in Mail and you get a weak one line version of reply headers.

    Hit it in Lotus Notes or Outlook or any real PIM and you get:

    To:
    From:
    Subject:
    Date:
    CC:
    BCC:
    Attachment:

    All the relevant info. In Mail and othr programs on Mac you get name, time/date. That's it. It's annoying and unprofessional.

    The kind of headers you're talking about aren't what I'm talking about.

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    I don't get it; you can enable the BCC, Reply-To, Priority, etc. input fields in Mail.

    My main complaint with Mail is that the threaded display kinda sucks. I'm not sure how it works but it's some kind of bastard hybrid of interpreting the message id headers (In-Reply-To which isn't universally supported) and then making wild-ass guesses based on subject line. So when I turn on threaded view I end up with one mega-thread of all email with "hey" as the subject. And the threading isn't true multi-level threading, it's more like clumping. But, it's better than nothing.

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    NLO Administrator Patrick has disabled reputation

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    I give up. It has nothing to do with input fields.

    Just trust me. It's missing a ton of info and there is no way to enable or change it.

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    Patrick, did you write your original two posts with the intention of sending it to Apple? If not, I think you should. Their R&D department might be interesting in hearing feedback from power-users such as yourself (especially considering your windows background and the dual platforms they currently offer).

    Also, I have found watching the SABC videos you have put out (after getting the Mac) easier to use. I really don't like Windows Media Player, so the switch to the Quicktime format was a plus for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclid View Post
    I don't get it; you can enable the BCC, Reply-To, Priority, etc. input fields in Mail.
    I think what he means is when you send and receive a long string of emails, Outlook inserts all that information to any previous email in the string...which is important, especially for business.
    Last edited by DesignerChic; July 12, 2007 at 10:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chompy View Post
    That is not a contradiction. People in those fields are notoriously poor at using and understanding computers. I'm not saying that EVERY app. shouldn't be intuitive and easy to use, but just because someone makes a great work of art, music, etc using a computer, doesn't mean they are "good at computers", just that the app/OS they are using works for them.
    That held true until about ten years ago. "People in those fields" used to learn how to do their jobs with real ink, paper, film and razor blades. For them, switching from 30+years of a real life workspace to a digital one was a hell of a shift.

    Nowadays, people are learning Adobe CS in highschool. Most younger editors and designers have been doing their job on computers since they started, and they know what the fuck they're doing.

    I'm a video editor, not a CS major, but I know how to troubleshoot my shit, and bring it back when it goes down. I can install my own hardware, run diagnostics, and fix problems. When you depend on your personal computers for your income (horray for freelance), knowing your equipment inside and out becomes a big priority.
    "You will never get hard if your dick is in a knot. I’m gonna say that, and you can quote me until I die." - Sean M. O'Brien

  20. #20
    NLO Forums Frequenter Euclid will become famous soon enough Euclid will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I give up. It has nothing to do with input fields.

    Just trust me. It's missing a ton of info and there is no way to enable or change it.
    I'm really curious what you're referring to. Take a screenshot?


 

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